Welcome to The Writing Coach. On this podcast, I speak with the instructors, editors, coaches, and mentors who help writers and authors create their art, build their audience, and sell their work.
In episode #110 of The Writing Coach podcast, I speak with Bella Mahaya Carter.
Bella Mahaya Carter is the author of Where Do You Hang Your Hammock?: Finding Peace of Mind While You Write, Publish, and Promote Your Book. She is a creative writing teacher, empowerment coach, and speaker, and author of an award-winning memoir, Raw: My Journey from Anxiety to Joy, and a collection of narrative poems, Secrets of My Sex.
Bella has worked with hundreds of writers since 2008 and has degrees in literature, film, and spiritual psychology. Her poetry, essays, fiction, and interviews have appeared in Mind, Body, Green; The Sun; Lilith; Fearless Soul; Writer’s Bone; Women Writers, Women’s Books; Chic Vegan; Bad Yogi Magazine; Jane Friedman’s Blog; Pick the Brain; Spiritual Media blog; Literary Mama; several anthologies, and elsewhere.
During our discussion, Bella describes:
- How our body, mind, and spiritual health influence our writing
- Why “striving” isn’t necessarily a good thing
- What she learned as a dancer that transferred over into her writing career
- Why she coined the term “universal doubt” and how it applies to writers
- What she hopes readers will take away from her new book
- How hanging a hammock in her backyard led to a creative breakthrough
- Why the only reason to do anything is love
- And much more!
Listen to the full podcast episode:
Watch the video of the conversation:
The Writing Coach Episode #110 Show Notes
Here is where to find Bella on the web:
Website: https://www.bellamahayacarter.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BellaMahayaCarter/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bellamahayacarter/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BellaMahaya
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bella-mahaya-carter-18570914/
Episode Transcript
Today on the podcast. I have Bella Mahalia Carter. Bella, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much. I’m thrilled to be here.
I’m glad to have you, perhaps you could let the listeners know a little bit about who you are and what you have going on in the world of writing and helping you.
Well, I’m an author, I’m a creative writing teacher and coach. And I recently wrote this book called, where do you hang your hammock, finding freedom, finding, finding peace of mind while you write, publish, and promote your book.
I’ve heard you say, or I’ve read that your writing journey, didn’t actually start with writing, but rather listening at the dinner table. I’m wondering if you could tell us a little bit about that.
Uh, you’ve done your homework. I love that. Um, yeah, I mean, as a kid, I used to like to hang around the dinner table after all the kids left. And the reason was that that when the kids left, the grownups started talking about dirt, they started. And when I say dirt, I really mean just the really interesting parts of life, the things that, that are important and meaningful and, um, that touch our hearts. And so I would just be really quiet and I would sit there and, you know, after a while it would just kind of forget that I was there and they would just talk more and more freely. And, um, and I just loved that. I, I felt like a fly on the wall. I didn’t know I was there. And so they would say things that they normally wouldn’t say in front of the children, and I didn’t always understand it all, but I knew it was important and I felt it in my heart. I felt that, I dunno, I just felt connected to something bigger than me in those moments.
And so what was the relationship between that feeling? The sense of I’m part of something bigger and beginning to become a writer?
Well, actually I didn’t become a writer until many, many years later. I actually was a dancer. And, and I think that I just always had the feeling that I needed to express what I was experiencing. I needed to process it. I needed to, I needed to feel it. I needed to share it and make sense out of it. And so for many years I made sense of it just through moving my body. And I, I was a student at Julliard and I had a back injury and I had to stop dancing. And even though that seemed like the end of my life, because I, my identity was wrapped up in being a dancer. It really was just only the beginning because I went to college and I, my first class that really excited me in college was a Shakespeare class. And I used to listen.
I had my big fat Pelican Shakespeare book, and I used to go to the library and listen to the records. And those days we still had records. I would listen to the records and I would read along with the plays and I just thought, Whoa, how can anybody write an entire play in poetry? And I just, I thought it was the most beautiful thing I’d ever seen. I didn’t even know at that time I would become a writer because I actually went to film school after college. But I, but after I graduated from film school, I just felt like God film is just so complicated and it takes money and it takes people. And it’s so big. And I just really want to tell my little stories and I want it to talk about myself and my experience. And so that’s when I really started to become a writer.
It’s interesting that you have the dance background strangely enough, on a show where I interview people who work with writers, you’re not the first dancer I’ve had on the show. I think there is something about the arts in general, right? That, that transfer over in that someone who might spend a good chunk of the younger portion of their life, learning to express themselves through their bodies, um, can then make that leap over to expressing themselves through words on the page.
I love that. And I actually am so surprised by where, where this interview is going. I didn’t expect this, expect this at all. And I love it because the truth was, it didn’t matter. What I discovered was that the form didn’t matter so much. It’s just the fact that I got to create
My daughter is a competitive dancer. That’s we’ve recorded this video right now because the zoom here was being used for two hours before this, for her to do her rehearsal. And, um, so I I’ve seen that the kind of passion and dedication and that really interesting relationship between artistic expression, but also just good old fashioned hard work and practice. And I think that’s another thing that translates over really nicely to writing this idea of you’re not going to get that move right, or that entire, um, choreography, right? The first time, you know, you’re going to come back here, you’re going to revise, revise your performance or revise, revise your chapter.
That’s so true. And I also, as you’re speaking, I’m thinking of the word discipline, because we’re because dancers need discipline as soda writers. I think, I think most artists need discipline. But what I love about the word discipline is that the, at the root is the word disciple, which means a student or one who studies,
Which is perfect for this show. Right?
Right.
You touched on your education there, you have a really interesting background, as he said, Julliard for dance, then film school. And then also you’ve studied spiritual psychology is that I’m not even sure what that is. So bring all these various educational paths together for me.
I love you. I love these questions that you’re asking me. The great thing about spiritual. Well, so psychology, the root of the word psychology is psyche, which means soul, but intro in the traditional curriculum around psychology, you don’t get the soul, you just get sort of the mental aspect. So the program that I enrolled in at the university of Santa Monica was, um, uh, it, it was a curriculum of a psychology that acknowledges the soul presence of the soul. And that was a really a game changer for me when I showed it. But in that program, I was at a place in my life where I had been working on multiple books for many years, but nothing, I hadn’t finished anything. I just had different projects in my file cabinet. And I was like in my early forties and I had gotten to a place in my life where I felt like, well, I haven’t been successful by now.
I’m never going to be successful. So I thought, you know, I’m just, I’m a failure. I just have done nothing, you know, interesting or important, or I haven’t built any of my dreams really. And when I enrolled in that program, what I learned was that was that there’s no such thing as failure. There’s just opportunities for growth. And once I understood that and I started looking at, I started looking at, you know, the, just the, all the thinking that I had, that I took seriously, that I believed that was holding me back, limiting thinking, and the main, you know, the biggest one was the I not good enough. And when I realized that that was just a thought that was likely seated in my childhood, as, you know, as some way to cope with what was going on in my life. And I didn’t have to take it seriously.
I thought, wow, that’s really interesting. And in my book, I actually talk about that. I have a chapter called universal doubt, and I talk about this kind of thinking as not being personal. In other words, we all have these thoughts and it’s just a question of what will we believe them or not. I wasn’t even aware that my thoughts were separate from me. I was like a fish in water, swimming around the water doesn’t that this fish doesn’t realize that it’s in the water. Right? So if the water is part of the fish and that’s how it is with us, with our thinking is that we have these negative thoughts, scary thoughts, anxious, thoughts, angry, thoughts, whatever they are. And, you know, we become fused with them. We become identified with them. So that, like, we just think they’re true. We don’t question them. And once I realized that, that this is just a process that goes on in the human mind, I, I started to take a step back and I started to say, well, that’s not a helpful thought. And that was just, that just changed everything for me.
And was it that line of education that then led to your first memoir or were those things happening concurrently because they seem to overlap these themes.
I love your questions. I think you’re just great. Um, yeah. Um, actually what my passion at that time was, was poetry. And I was reading a lot of poetry and I was writing love poetry. And one of the cool things about that program is that for your final project graduate, to get your degree, you need to fulfill a heartfelt dream. And what happens when we start to move in the direction of whatever our heartfelt dream is, is that all of our demons come up or not Dean, and that’s not the right word, but all of our fears surface and whatever ways they do. And so then you kind of have to meet them and greet them and, and, and see what happens. And so my dream at that time was to, to have my poetry book published. And, and so that’s what I did. And it was a very liberating and wonderful experience.
And then, you know, then actually let’s kind of cool is that, you know, I’ve worked very hard at my writing over the years, just developing my craft. But I, I, I am a really good teacher and coach, and that’s just something that’s natural. That’s not something that I had to study, but I always thought, well, if I’m going to be teaching, writing and coaching writing, I have to have books. I have to have books out, you know? And so I, so I wanted to put out that book so that I could then be a teacher and a coach, but what I’ve since learned, this was in 2008. What I’ve since learned is that one thing, and in some ways, one thing has nothing to do with the other. I’ve had really great writing teachers that were great writers and I’ve had, you know, I’ve, I studied with people who are great writers who were terrible teachers. So I didn’t really have the confidence to move forward with, with what I really wanted to do, which was to coach and to teach because I hadn’t hadn’t had the book. Um, but then after, you know, soon after I started teaching and coaching, the book gave me permission. I just realized, wow, this is, this is beautiful. I love this. I understand this. It’s, it’s nice.
I think every coach probably goes through that experience of saying like, every artist says, is my work good enough? I want it to be better. And you start second guessing yourself. But the thing I always tell myself is I always look at basketball coaches, you know, you’ll have like a five foot, nine guy coaching, Michael Jordan or whatever. It’s like, you don’t need to be able to do a slam dog to be able to coach basketball team. You don’t need to be number one New York times best seller to be able to help someone write their book.
And, you know, I love that. I think that’s so true. And I, what I learned was that actually my education in spiritual psychology was even more valuable for me as a coach, even though I think I understood a lot of things. Um, I think what people need more than anything is they need to be heard. They need to be seen, they need to be appreciated and they need to be celebrated. So before you can even have a conversation about, okay, how do we make this better? I, I always start with, this is what I hear. And this is what I see. This is what I appreciate and celebrate because that’s, we need that. We all need that.
I think I went into coaching a little naive. I think I said, I’m going to teach people how to use story structure and where to put commas. And very early on, I learned much more. My conversations were like, my husband doesn’t believe I can ever be a writer and he won’t give me the time I need to get my pages written. And those are the types of things we’re talking about. It’s not necessarily about where commas go. It’s about how do you make the room in your life to pursue your dreams.
So true. And how did, and how to relate to yourself when you’re going through difficult thinking. That looks really real.
Yeah. And I think that might be a nice segue into your new book. Tell us a little bit about, uh, where do you hang your hammock?
Well, if I hear it, I’ll just read the back just that, um, it’s an invaluable resource for writers that debunks the myth that anxiety is the price of admission to a creative life, inspiring and practical. Practical. This guide book is divided into five parts, three nourish, write, publish, and promote that show writers want to use their present moment circumstances as stepping stones to a successful and meaningful writing light navigated from the inside out.
So the lessons that you’re teaching in this book, is this something that evolved from your coaching practice?
Uh, it, it evolved from, from everything. I mean, I don’t, I can’t say that my coaching practice is separate from my life, from my education, from what I read from who I am, from who I talked to. Um, it’s really a synthesis of 10 years of, um, of study in, in the fields of, of spiritual psychology of writing. Um, but mostly my interest is like, how do we become more free? How do we, how do we show up and do the things that we want to do? How do we, you know, come from a place of courage? And what I love about courage is that it, that the root is core, which means heart. You know, how do we live from our hearts and less from our heads and, um, really show up and do the things that we want to do. So this book, it really is. I think what’s different about it because there’s tons of books on the market about writing, but this is really about how to find and maintain peace of mind. Not only while you’re writing, but while you’re publishing and while you’re promoting and how to nourish yourself.
The book’s broken up into five parts. Could you tell us a little bit about those five parts? Because I think you just alluded to some of them just now, right?
Yeah, I did. You know, so basically the book, um, several years ago, um, my editor said to me, you should write a book based on your law. And I thought, well, why would I want to do that? You know, like people are reading my blog and I didn’t really take it seriously. And then a couple of years ago, I thought, well, actually, I’ve been writing that blog for 10 years and not all the people who read my work are always reading my blog. And then I thought, wouldn’t it be interesting to see what happens when, when I, when, when the, what I’ve been writing is organized thematically rather than chronologically. That sounds interesting. So what I did was I Chronicle, I made, like I logged all my blog posts and they were like some 270 blog posts. And I discovered when I looked at them that the mat from a thematic perspective, these five categories, like most of the blog posts either fit into the category of dreaming, um, nourishing yourself, writing, publishing, or promoting.
So then what I did was I just shuffled the deck, you know, I like, I took the posts and I, so I knew I had my five sections. I put the different posts in the different sections, but then, and then that was great. It was really fun. But then when I read, I was like, Oh, you can’t just string blog posts together and make a book like that doesn’t happen. But as soon as I saw what was wrong with it, like no sooner did I see what was wrong with it? And then like, like within moments, I was like, Oh, I know what I have to do. And so in a way that project, I felt like it was very easy. Like, I didn’t really even do anything. I spent many hours working, but it was, it never felt like I was working because it just felt, honestly, I felt divinely inspired. It just felt like I was just, I was just doing what I’m supposed to be doing. And, um, so, so it was a lovely, I don’t, I really have never had this kind of an experience before. It was just, uh, kind of effortless
You have a memoir about overcoming anxiety. Then you have another book about overcoming some physical stomach troubles that you had.
That’s the same one. That’s the same book. The first one is Secrets of >y Sex. That’s the poetry and then the other one I actually thought I was writing about, um, curing chronic stomach problems through a raw vegan diet and trying to make my way through my midlife crisis. But what I discovered in the writing of that book, and I didn’t even really know about it until I had written the book and somebody had pointed it out to me was that the book really was about anxiety. I had chronic stomach problems for a long time. And, you know, the doc doctors were prescribing medication. And I thought, well, I don’t think like, I want to cure not comrade. I want to get to the bottom of this. I want to know, you know, what’s going on with me. And I hadn’t read a lot of literature on health and nutrition and people were saying that this raw food diet could be really helpful.
And so I thought for a long time, I was like, well, I don’t know. It seems so extreme and weird. And the finally I said, well, let me try it. And I tried it and I, I discovered, wow, I have a lot more energy. I’m feeling better. You know, this is, this is kind of amazing. But after I was into it for some time, I was like, but it’s not the panacea that I thought it was. And it was at that point that I decided that I thought I asked myself the question, what would a raw food diet for the mind like, and that’s when I became interested in this program in spiritual psychology. And that’s where I began to unpack all of the stuff that was in my head that was preventing me from having the life that I wanted and doing the things that I wanted to do creatively.
And then, you know, again, I after that program, I got the poetry book written. I, I started writing the memoir and it wasn’t actually until asked, this was, this was wild. So, so after the memoir was written, my publisher brought to the sales team and they said, we want the word anxiety. And the subtitle was originally a midlife quest for health and happiness. And when they said they wanted the word anxiety in the subtitle, I got scared. Cause I didn’t really like identify myself as an anxious person necessarily. Well actually let me back up. I was writing the third memoir is divided into three sections, body, mind, and spirit when I’d been outlining it. I hadn’t didn’t, I was clear about the body section Claire about the mind, but I didn’t really know what the spirit section was about. I turned out when I was approaching the spirits, I was at the end of the mind section.
We had five family deaths in three years and I was the executor of my mom’s estate and it was nasty. And I developed an anxiety disorder and the doctors again wanted me to take medication. And I kind of, I felt like my body was trying to teach me something. That’s the thing about being a dancer when you’re a dancer or, you know, like you have this relationship with your body and your, you know, so I didn’t, I felt like taking the medication, which I had to do at some sometimes, but I, I really wanted to hear what my body was saying and teaching me. So that was a really hard time. And I, I learned a lot during, you know, what, cause I got some help with that from a, uh, therapist with the anxiety. And it wasn’t until that point really that I understood that, that a lot of the chronic stomach problems that I was having was connected to anxiety. And I didn’t, I didn’t even. And so, and, but then, you know, again, when the sales team said they wanted anxiety, the subtitle was like, wow, I have to like stand up and show up and say to people, look, I, I haven’t, I’ve had anxiety all these years. And I, you know, that was, that was hard and also really wonderful because I, you know, I’m a recovering perfectionist.
So to bring that back to the new book I want to dig into, I think it’s the fifth section, the promotion section, because you’re someone who’s interested in mind, body and soul and this kind of holistic approach to health and happiness. And I think for most writers, promotion is almost the opposite of all those things. They bring anxiety, they bring stuff worries are all of these things. So tell me a little bit about this final section of the book, where you’re merging all your interests with this idea of book, promotion, or marketing.
I love your questions, Kevin. I think this is great. The thing is that like, that’s an old way to think about like, thinking about promotion in terms of marketing and selling and sounding like they use cards, car salesman, that’s an old way to think about marketing marketing the way I think about marketing. And I’ve gotten a lot of, um, uh, understand understanding of this from Dan blank, who wrote a wonderful book called via the gateway. And, uh, and he’s kind of known as a, as like a heart-centered marketing guy and I loved his stuff. I loved his newsletter. And, um, and what I learned from him and also from my heart-centered spiritual psychology experience, is that the idea that like, when you write a book, it’s probably because you have something important that you want to share. And, and then, and then the book becomes a vehicle to have conversations like you and I are having this conversation now.
And it’s so cool because I get to talk about all my books with you, which is really, you know, it’s great because they’re all like children, they’re all like a big part of me. So then it becomes then it, and then, then I start to think about it in terms of, well, this is just a way to have conversations with people about the things that I’ve seen that have helped me suffer less and, and have the kind of life that I want to have. And so then it becomes like, okay, we get to show up in service. We get to share from our hearts and have meaningful conversations. And what’s better than that.
I love it. What about this idea of universal doubt? Something that you’ve dubbed in the book? Tell me about that.
Yeah. I don’t know, like that word just came to me one day. Um, and why, and the reason why I like to think of it as universal is because it’s not personal. We take so much, we take so much that happens in our lives personally. And we think it’s about us. Like I was saying earlier about the thinking, you know, when I have a thought, like I’m not good enough, or I can’t do this, or, um, you know, any thought that doesn’t lift me, um, these thoughts are, are universal. We all have these thoughts and that you guys, if I had a friend who said to me, some of the things that I say to myself, like you’re not good enough, or who do you think you are? Or any of this kind of thinking is I probably wouldn’t stick around long and be friends with that person because it starts to feel like an abusive relationship.
And so I think with the universal dad is just understanding that that is not personal. These are, these are ideas. My mom used to say, um, she, she would sometimes be around like, which in, like in the PTA, she was president of the PTA. She’d say, there’d be a lot of women, you know, just gossiping. And she said, I couldn’t stand it. So I would just tune them out. So what I’ve learned about these universal doubt thoughts that aren’t helpful is, um, I can just opt to send them out. I can’t really, I can’t make them go away. Although I have found that by not by not holding onto them and not believing them by not allowing myself to be hijacked by them, that they tend to show up less often because they really want my attention.
I’ve always thought of myself as a striver, someone who’s trying to go after things and achieve things and grabs success. But in the book, you kind of take an opposite TA approach to that. Tell me about that. What’s wrong with striving?
Yeah. I love that question. Uh, I think it really depends on what is the energy behind the striving. In my case, the strive, the, the, like the, what was pushing, what, what fueled the striving was this, I have to prove myself. I’m not worthy it, you know, it was a sort of like crazy search for love. And so what I think is that, you know, what I’ve been sort of seeing over the last few years is, wow, it’s pretty different to show up and do the work that I love just for the love of it. And not because I need anything from it. That’s the cool thing about this book. Like, I almost feel like I need anything from it. I don’t need it to do anything for me. I’m just sharing it in hopes that it will help other people get free and find some peace of mind and, you know, go into their own creativity.
So I really just has to do with what is the energy behind the striving, if it’s because you feel like I’m not good enough the way I am. So I better achieved some things. I better prove myself, then that’s not a really happy way to live, but if you can settle back and say like, you know what, we’re all good enough. Let’s just do, there’s also a chapter in my book called, um, uh, Oh, I can’t remember exactly what it’s called, but Oh, the only reason to do anything is for love. I had a teacher at USM who said that, and I was like, really, but what about this and this and this and all these things that we just have to do in life. And then I’ll start thinking about it. And I realized that so much of what I do I do for love, like clean my house, take care of my family. Now I don’t think of it in that way. But if, if I wrote down deep enough, there’s love there. And if I’m asked to do something that I don’t want to do it, I just try to snip out the love, you know, is this a, is this an organization that I want to help? Is this, you know, is there a love here? And if there’s no love, they’re not going to do it.
Okay. Here’s a question for you: what the heck the hammocks have to do with writing?
Okay. That’s a good question. So I’ll tell you a story. This is the stories and the introduction to my book. About 10 years ago, my husband and my daughter, they bought me a hammock mother’s day. And it was the best gift I had ever received, except I didn’t know where it could it. So we cleared this perfect spot on the side of our house, and we set up a hammock there. And every day after work at five o’clock, when it was warm enough out, I’d go into the hammock and read I’m dosed. The best thing, it really was just the, you know, it was my dance. I mean, it was great. And then one day I got into my hammock and something was different. And then I didn’t, wasn’t sure what it was. And then finally, I looked up and I realized that the, the tree limb that was the tree was planted on my neighbor’s property, but there was a hole in the fence through which the Linux extended and provided this beautiful canopy for me, my neighbor had cut it down.
I was hot. The sun was beating down on me and I just bought like, wow, you know, I don’t know what to do about this. My husband said, well, let’s, you know, let’s put a shade structure. And I’m like, well, I don’t want to look at some plastic shade structure. Well, let’s plan something. Well, it’s going to take forever to grow tall enough. The long and the short of it is that he came up with all these great ideas and I texted him down. She came down, I just thought I was screwed. And I thought that my neighbor scrutiny was all his fault. That’s up for a month. I didn’t go in my habit. And then finally, one day I was exhausted. I really wanted to be outside of my hand. And so I went outside, put on my gardening gloves. I pulled down a rotting, Redwood trellis.
I moved my hand into a spot. I got into my hammock. I looked up and I saw oleander and sky and birds. And I was like, Oh my God, this is beautiful. What, why didn’t I do this sooner? And I realized that I had my mind had been fixed. I thought that it had to look a certain way. It was like, that was the perfect spot. And then this is a little aside I’ve since moved my hand and all over the place in my yard. And there is not a bad place in my yard for my hammock. And so what that has to do with writing is that I realized when I was going through the process of publishing my memoir, that sometimes things that showed up didn’t look like what I expected them to look like. And I had to keep moving my hammock, my proverbial hand, I had to keep making adjustments and needing the opportunities that showed up rather than being rigid and just, you know, sticking my heels in the dirt and saying, well, this doesn’t look like how I want it to look. So I’m not going to do it.
The book is out on June 1st from She Writes Press. Any big takeaways you want readers to get from the book?
I just want people to relax and I want people to just be connected to them, to what they love and to, and to know that they’re good enough. And to know that if they have a dream to write a book or to do anything else that they can do it,
Should we send them to Amazon to buy the book? Or do you have other places online you want folks to go check it out?
Uh, it’s available, wherever books are sold. So if you want to support your local indie bookstores, that’s great naked. They don’t have it. They can order it. They certainly can get it on Amazon if that’s what they enjoy doing. Um, so again, it’s available, wherever books are sold. And I’m just so nice to talk to you, Kevin. I really, I love your show. I’ve listened to lots of your interviews and I just think you’re fantastic and I love what you’re doing here. So thank you so much for having me.
Thank you so much for being on the show today. Bella, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you.
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