Welcome to The Writing Coach. On this podcast, I speak with the instructors, editors, coaches, and mentors who help writers and authors create their art, build their audience, and sell their work.
In episode #121 of The Writing Coach podcast, I speak with Val Ries, author of the new book Chief Inspiration Officer: How to Lead the Team Everyone Wants to Be On.
Val Ries has spent years turning around struggling teams, uplifting low morale, and making sure that workplace productivity actually works. As the founder of Executive Muse, she has guided over 1,000 leaders in building their own top-performing teams at Fortune 500 companies and small businesses.
When it came time to write her first book, Val chose to work with me as her writing coach. As such, I am absolutely thrilled to have her on the podcast.
During our discussion, Val describes:
- How real-time feedback informed the drafting of the book
- Why both leadership and writing can evoke self-doubt
- The 4 biggest challenges she faced while writing the book
- How you can inspire those around you to be their best selves
- And more!
Listen to the full podcast episode:
Watch the interview:
The Writing Coach Episode #121 Show Notes
Where to find Val Ries online:
Website: https://www.executive-muse.com
Book Page: https://www.executive-muse.com/ciobook
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/valries
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/executivemuse
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/executivemuse
Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Chief-Inspiration-Officer-Everyone-Wants/dp/1645438988
Get the book:
Episode Transcript
Today on the podcast I have Val Ries. Val, welcome to the show.
Hi, Kevin. I’m so happy. We’re reunited.
Congratulations on the book launch.
Woo <laugh>.
The book came out this week.
It came out less than a week ago, last Tuesday.
How is this week been for you? Has it been crazy, hectic, or has it been calm after all the buildup? How has it been?
It’s been interesting mainly with Amazon inventory. So they, they kind of messed up the whole like preorder anticipation, anticipation of like how many orders and then right before, or the holidays we got like the whole Christmas. Oh, it might not arrive in time. So that was challenging. <Laugh> but I think we’re out of the woods.
Is this because it was hard cover, it wasn’t print on demand, so you had to kind of estimate a print run. Is that what happened?
My publisher was focused on Amazon algorithms so we were at the mercy of what they thought they needed to order. And then they ordered enough for release date, but either it was shipping delays, it didn’t arrive on time or you know, just warehousing things that happened. But somehow there was a disconnect between how many they order versus how many actually sold. So I sold out in like four hours, which was cool, but not at the same . . .
Right. Yeah. That’s one of those things where you kind of want to sell out, but you also kind of don’t.
Yeah. Like, wait a second. I just drove all this traffic to the Amazon site and you’re sold out what? Yeah.
But that sounds like a pretty good thing that that’s much better problem to have than the other one where you have too many books and no one buying them.
That’s true. I would rather take the sellout option for sure.
Well, I grabbed my copy and I read through it the other day. For the listeners out there, Val and I were work together on this book a few years ago and I remembered like one of our first sessions, you came to me and you had this Google Doc with just like a thousand ideas in it. <Laugh> Just like a crazy amount of research ideas, concepts, but it was like a bit of a wreck
mm-hmm <affirmative>
Then I’m sitting here and I reading this book and it’s perfectly organized. It’s so clear. It was just such an amazing example of the creative journey of how you take a hundred ideas and make them four or five really strong, clear ideas, and sequence them in a way that works. I just think you’ve done such an incredible job on that with this book.
Well, thank you. You know what? You were just a huge part of that because I remember the very first thing I did was I took out this huge poster board and I wrote the word leadership in the middle. And then I started creating like, you know, that spider web looking thought bubble, right. Where I was like, okay, what are all the things that go into leadership? And, you know, you have next, you know, 50, 60, I things like even just one word things on there. And when I came to you with that Google doc, I was like, help me organize this <laugh> I don’t know what, what I’m doing. And we, before I even hired you, I spent almost a year of my own time trying to write a little and I would stop and write and stop. And I got pretty discouraged until I met you. <Laugh>
Well, that’s fantastic. I’m so glad I could be part of it. I mean, with you the challenge was never that you didn’t have anything to say or that you didn’t have experience to draw from. As I said, it was like, okay, we’ve got so much good stuff here, how do we package it?
Yes. And I think a lot of business book self-help, you know, non-fiction authors usually hone in on like, well, one core concept, like for example, communication, you know, but I felt like for, for leadership communication, yes is important. And so were these like three or four other things to really holistically bring together the concept of how to be a great leader. So that was the challenge we were running into, right. Is how to take all these beautiful things, but not overwhelm the reader. And I think, I think we did a really nice job, like breaking it down. So it feels bite size and tangible and applicable and practical. So that that’s been a lot of fun.
I think one of the things you were doing with this book that I would recommend every nonfiction author do is you were teaching material as you were writing it. So you would tell me, “I’ve got this idea, I’ve got this concept” and then you would go and teach it to a hundred people. Then you would come back the next week and say, “Here’s what worked. Here’s what didn’t.”
Yes, absolutely. You’re right. I kind of forgot about that. <Laugh>
I think that kind of real time feedback is invaluable.
Yeah. You know, it’s a good point because I think a lot of people probably write or build something before they even know if there’s a need or before they get the feedback. Totally. So I was blessed in that sense that my clients were telling me what they were needing and then they were giving me real life feedback. You’re right. You you’re right. That’s, that’s so important. Even if your listeners, even if they did that for free with somebody, right. If they didn’t have a hundred people asking for that, but maybe they can get like some sort of beta where they’re like, I’m looking for five to 10 people. Can I teach this to you? Gimme feedback. You know, even that could work if you’re newer to that. Yeah.
That’s one of the dangers of being a writer. It’s so solitary, you’re so isolated, and it’s so long before you’re getting feedback on it. I find critique groups where writers sit in a group and read to each other, I think there’s some value to it. I also think a lot of the time they’re giving each other bad advice, and that’s a problem. But the thing is you can see when you’re being boring, you’re reading you’re like, I thought this was really good, but I’m losing the room. That idea of reading the room, which actually kind of ties into your book’s content, the idea kind of emotional intelligence and being able to recognize the individuality of every person in that room is so important to strong leadership and good writing, I guess.
Yeah. Well, and it was part of my journey too. Like one of the things I realized early on in, in management was that we have our own little insecurities that come out. Right. So if somebody questions us or someone’s insubordinate or disrespectful, like, you know, we, we, we wonder, okay, did I handle that the best way? Or am I a good enough leader? Am I valued? And so I realized early on, we have to get through those insecurities to really be influential and effective. Well, was the same with the writing process. I was writing and feeling massively insecure. Like what if no one reads this? Or what if no one resonates? Or, you know, what, if no one likes this? Like I just had all these like, oh no. And I had to walk myself through the same process. I was teaching managers, but I was just doing it as an author. So it was like reinforcing the fact that like, oh wait, it’s working on me. <Laugh> so it definitely will work on other people. And even though the roles are a little different. So that part was really fun.
I think one of the interesting things about our collaboration is we come at things really differently. I tend to like grasp onto an idea and then I say, “I’ll make it work. I’ll make it work. I’m going with this.” Whereas you’ll rethink it and rethink it until you get it perfect. I wish I had your patience. And it’s so interesting because one of the things you’re great at is these acronyms, right? Looking at kind of complicated things and then breaking them down into systems that are easily digestible and understandable to people. And you’re so good at that, but you’re so good at it that you’re like, well, I’ve got six different acronyms that’ll work for this one, right?
Yes. Yes. I think taking complex information and making it easy to digest is part what I do when I train. And so the whole time, because I don’t have, when you’re writing a book, you don’t have the benefit of, of real time questions from an audience. I really noodled, like how can I say this in the best way that any different type of learning style or personality would really absorb it in a way that felt like they were being guided. That was so important to me. So that <laugh>, that’s probably why I dissected it so much. <Laugh>,
Over the process of writing the book, what would you say was maybe the biggest challenge you encountered along the way?
Well, I think for sure the first one was like that imposter syndrome, like who am I to write a book and you start comparing yourself to somebody with like a Ted talk, at least for my industry or like a PhD or and then you have to, I remember that everybody brings something different to the table. So I had to get over that. That was one of the challenges I think there were multiple Kevin <laugh>. Hold on, let me break ’em all down. <Laugh> challenge number one, challenge. Number two was just writing it. I mean, you, I remember one thing that you were really good at was you were just kept saying, just write a first draft, just get it out, get it out, get it out. And I with, I have a bit of a perfectionism to me. And so that was really hard for me to write something that didn’t look perfect at first, but you just kept reminding me that we had to start somewhere.
So getting a over that was probably the second hardest. And then I think the third hardest part is edit finding the right editor mm-hmm <affirmative> right, because they’re, they have to be able to match your, your tone and your style and tighten up the, the language, but make it so it’s not, you’re not losing your voice. So that, that was a third. And then I think honestly, the fourth has been marketing. It is, is getting the word out because Amazon’s saturated with non-fiction and business book authors. So you’re not going to get necessarily found with keywords searches. So that’s a whole nother world. <Laugh> the,
Yeah. I mean, and you also have, there’s no real-life book events going on for the most part. You’ve got a book launch, but it’s almost, I’m guessing, probably a 90% online launch due to COVID and other factors.
Yeah, it was. We went with an influencer strategy, which was really about who in my network would benefit from this book, what other authors or speakers or podcasters have an audience that would benefit. And then who’s willing to share the message with the world and their audience. And most people were willing and it was just being comfortable with asking for that. Yeah. For that help, which was, I’m more of a giver. <Laugh> not always the receiver. So it was really hard for me to, to say like, Hey, would you do me a favor and like read the book or PO share it with your network. But it, most people were willing to and, and really enjoy doing so. Cause it could help somebody.
I mean, that was a lesson I learned. For years with my coaching, I was like, “I’m doing it all myself. I’m going build my own audience. I don’t need anyone’s help.” But then I put together a summit that had like 25 different, you know, experts who I interviewed and we promoted the event collaboratively and thousands and thousands of people signed up. Whereas if I had done it on my own it would have been hundreds and hundreds that would’ve signed up. It was a real great lesson. I didn’t lose anything. I won, everyone won. The other involved won, the audience won because the message reached them. It can be so difficult to ask for help and yet so effective at times.
You’re so right. You’re so right. I think sometimes we think we have to just do everything on our own. And that that’s probably a really great reminder to, and listening and even to myself, is that we don’t have to go out lives alone. I know sometimes resources are limited for people like can’t afford to, you know, but there’s so many ways to also get support without spending thousands and thousands of dollars too.
Something you’ve always been willing to do is collaborate with others to make the book as good as possible. What’s that experience been like? Obviously, you worked with me, but I know you worked with a whole other team of people as well. What’s that been like collaborating to get your message out into the world?
Yeah. So, you know, I definitely had my own intuitive, intuitive process, which I, I really recommend people lean on that. But I think before I even started writing, I had interviewed a dozen leaders in, in the space on the topic of what I was wanting to write about. So I interviewed and asked them, I don’t know, each like 10 questions. And so what that did was that actually validated that I was on path, that we were all really feeling the same things and recognizing the same things about what makes a great leader. So, but now I had a dozen people that were going, oh, she’s writing a book. So when it came to the, when it came to me needing endorsements, those were the 12 people I went to. It was really great. And they right away beta tested or read it in like beta form before it ever even really got fully edited. So for them to start saying, I’m liking this, I’m liking this. It was, I, it was helpful. I needed that validation. And then they’re in the book, you know, their endorsements are there, so that’s great. And now that’s a dozen people that will recommend it to their network. So that’s also really helpful
Looking back at our time together, I think maybe the biggest challenge for me was trying to land on the name for the book. You and I were going back and forth. I kept being like, “Val, this could work Val, that could work.” And you kept saying, “No, Kevin, that’s not it. We’re not there yet.” When we stopped working together, it still didn’t have a name, I don’t think. Then when you reached out to me or I reached out to you, whatever it was, when we reconnected getting ready for the book launch, I saw Chief Inspiration Officer, and I was like, “Boom, she nailed it!” That was the one thing I so wish I’d been able to help you get there, but it was just out of my reach somehow. So tell me a little bit about how you finally landed on the title?
Yes. Well, so for one you definitely pushed me in the right direction. I also had to just continue to remind myself, like, it’ll come, it’ll come, it’ll happen when it’s supposed to happen. But in editing, we started naming the chapters and there was one chapter that I actually think you named how to motivate a team. I think that was like one, we just like as a placeholder, how to Mo motivate a team. And it was like, okay, that’s good. But we could probably name this chapter something better. And so the editor named it, chief inspiration officer, and I said, that’s not the title, the chapter, that’s the title of the book. <Laugh>
Aren’t those moments amazing?
Yes. Yes. And we always had the subtitle though.
Yeah. Right from the start, I think.
We Always knew “How to Lead the Team Everyone Wants to Be On” was like the core thing.
Yeah. Your vision for the book was like clear from the beginning. It was just how we were going to get you there. What was the best, best path to that end point. But you came into this project very clear on who you were and what you wanted to say about leadership.
I remember we were working and, and like, we started – for anyone who’s never worked with you. I mean, it was like such a beautiful process because you helped me organize my thoughts and then I would go write. And then we would look at what I wrote and, and I would say, this is feeling good, but this is feeling off. So you would help me work through it. And then I would fine tune this and fine tune that. And I remember when you edited my first chapter, it actually started to feel like a real life book. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, I see this.” And it was like that moment of just pure enthusiasm where you start to see that your sentences take a life. And I remember you sprinkled in the visual aspect, which as a writer, I didn’t know how to do that.
Do you remember that story about when I went out in the field to ride along with one of my employees and he picked me up and just, he was nervous and, and you were like, and his, you know, he was sweaty and his car was littered with gum wrap. And I was like, oh wow. Like I have a visual, instead of just saying he was a mess, you know, like you were able to like, make it, make it. So you really feel like you’re there in that moment. And you were teaching me how to do that. So my head was not there. So I love that you did that because we wound up using stories in like every chapter. I mean, every chapter just opens with a story.
I think the timing on this book couldn’t have been better. I mean, throughout the pandemic, we’ve been hearing about worker shortages, people refusing to go back to work for bad bosses, this whole shift in the labor movement. And who knows even where it’s going end up on the other side of the pandemic? We were working on this book two years ago and you seem to have seen this coming on this horizon, the idea that old school management is dead and that the modern leader is the empathetic leader.
Somebody who just read it reviewed it the best. And I was like, why didn’t I think of this? He said, “You can only have one CEO, one COO, one CFO, but you can have multiple Chief Inspiration Officers.” And that gives me chills because it’s so true. And it doesn’t just have to be the leader. It can be mentors, it can be anyone on the team can be inspirational to other people. And what that does is it creates engagement and create Inca. It creates employee engagement. It creates collaboration and unity. So when you’re feeling alone on your island, because you’re working remotely and now everyone on the team is wanting to connect and unite and understand each other and, and celebrate each other and, and lean on each other. And, and the leader is creating that environment. It’s empathy. And it’s also so much more because now you feel part of a community and that does increase productivity. So it’s just a different way of looking at things.
It’s so interesting because it’s a leadership book, but – this is something that was there right from the beginning as well – you always said, well, it starts with improving yourself. Long before you go in there and tell your team how to get better, you have to honestly look yourself in the mirror and say, “Am I being the best me I can be?” Because you can’t inspire your team if you’re not inspiring yourself.
Yeah. Yeah. I remember I got promoted. I was, you, you get focused on forecasts and budgets and deadlines and, and hitting goals. And when a team member doesn’t do the things that you’re expecting them to do, you start to get irritable and stressed and you feel pressure. It is kind of like that feeling when you’re a team major and you’re thinking your parents will never understand you. And then one day you become the parent and you’re like, you need to do this because I told you so. Right. And you, you forget that. That’s not what you wanted as a team. And that’s what happens when people get promoted into management roles. So you’re so focused on all these things and next thing you know, you’re leading from a place of frustration and that’s going to impact your communication, your tone, the things you say, your influence.
So we gotta get out of what I call this metaphorical cave, right? Like if we’re a, in a cave, we can still lead. We can still check emails. We can still communicate, but are we going to be doing it as effectively as, and influentially as possible. So it does start with us and we have to recognize of course cave is an acronym. <Laugh> well, it stands for you know, C is criticism. Like when we start to, to criticize what people are doing and a is assumption. When we start to assume people will never do it. Like we do it or they’re never going to do it good enough. Or they’re never going to respond the way we want. And then V is we victimize ourselves really like, okay, I’m doing something wrong. I’m failing. What if? And then E as we get into these enclosed patterns where we start to act maybe a little bit more defensive or passive aggressive, or we start to micromanage, you know, we all have these like default tendencies. So when we’re in the cave, it’s a, it’s, it’s hard to be inspirational, you know? So we gotta get out. And when we’re out, the light just comes our way and we attract more creativity and more enthusiasm and collaboration because people feel safe, they feel heard, they feel valued. And it’s in that space that we’re really creating team effectiveness.
I think the thing that’s amazing about what you are teaching is maybe as a Chief Inspiration Officer you are going to transform the whole company, but maybe not. That’s a big challenge, but you can create a microculture within a larger organization. Tell me a bit about that idea.
Yeah. The idea is that many managers wait for the executive team, the HR team, you know, the, the all hands on a company meeting to communicate things to their team. And then their team recognizes, oh, there’s this, this unknown happening in the organization. But we don’t really know what’s happening. My thing is, okay, look, don’t wait for those things because they might come soon. They might not just create a mic or culture. That’s thriving within your team. I don’t care how much dysfunction is going on around you. You can control what’s in front of you. So create that environment and, and you know what, and if the next department head can create that environment and the next department head, it gives the executives time to breathe and communicate and get clarity. And even if you don’t know what’s happening, it’s your team’s going to appreciate that. You saying, Hey, I don’t know what’s happening. I know there’s change. I know we’re may go through a merger. I know this is scary, but, and I don’t have all the answers, but here’s what I do know. And you know what, in the meantime, let’s focus on why we’re here. Let’s focus on a product. Let’s focus on the customer. Let’s remind ourselves what’s important. It’s those things. We have to reunite people back to why they go to work every day.
One of my favorite stories in the book is the one about the employee who kept showing up late because her tire was flat. Can you tell that story for the listeners and maybe, what you took from that experience and why it’s in the book?
Yeah. Okay. So that came from one of my interviewees Joel Carson, who was the VP of, I think it was an engineering company at the time he had a, her that was getting really frustrated with one of their employees, because they were always late to work. And the point other than being late was pretty good employee, but their role required them to clock in on time. And he went, the director, went to the VP Joel and said, I think I need to let her go. Because I keep warning her. And I keep reminding her and it’s not changing. And Joel got on the phone with the employee and said, you’re a really great employee what’s happening. And she said that she is having a hard time getting to work because her car keeps failing and lately it’s her tires and she doesn’t have of the money to replace her tires.
She’s gotten a few flats, she’s had to repair patch, holes her line pour, like there were all these things going on with her tires. And so Joel asked her if you had new tires, could you get to work on time? And she said, yes, but right now I’m taking the bus and it’s making me late. So he said, I tell you what, I’m going to write a one time check and I’m going to pay for a brand new set of tires for you. And that was it. Like she was just the joy in her heart, the loyalty, the, and then she went above and beyond and she was recommending friends to the organization and she worked even harder and it was just to pay for a brand new set of tires, but she felt heard, he asked questions. He, he got curious and he was able to offer solution. That story brings me chills. I love it.
It’s such a great example of when we think about being a leader and being in an organization and having problems that you need to solve, it’s so the opposite of the traditional punitive approach or, you know, keep it work focused. He took the time to figure out who she was and what the problem was and actually solved the problem. And in doing so created an utterly dedicated employee. I love it.
Yes. Yes. I, I love that story. And as you’re saying it, I’m like, you know what, I’m going to do a social media post on that story because it’s just so profound and so, so wonderful. And I get it, you know, not every company can just spend the money on new tires, but what we can do is ask the questions and what we can do is try to understand and wow, that that’s huge, right? Just to, just to have an employee feel heard. And not that we want excuses, we don’t want that, but we certainly, in this case she was a good employee, right? She wasn’t someone who made excuses for everything. So I think being willing to have an open mind when that happens is, is really huge.
I think you’ve hit on something important there too, because I’ve talked about how this is an empathetic approach to leadership and I think someone might misread that as, “oh, it’s kind of like, you know, soft-hand kid-gloving the employees or whatever. But you make it very clear in this book that demanding high expectations is part of being that inspirational force. Part of leadership is saying, “That’s not good enough. I know you can do better.”
Yes, absolutely. And I’m so glad you brought that up because I think leadership’s a balance it and we are balancing three things. We are balancing being passive. So knowing when to step back and letting somebody fail and letting somebody you know, to empower them, to delegate to them and let them take processes over and watch even if they’re making mistakes. So it’s knowing when to step in and step out. And I think the second thing is knowing when to be encouraging right. When to acknowledge and appreciate. And some people do that all the time. They’re like RA RA and maybe they cross that, that friend zone maybe tune much. Right. So then there’s that third thing we have to balance, which is this high standards. And it’s, it’s knowing that we want to set the bar high. We want to drive people to that excellence. And we, we believe that they can do it. And when you’re balancing these three things constantly, then you are getting more of what you need and you’re bringing people along with you. So yeah, it’s not just like sitting back and being nice. <Laugh> right. Certainly that’s cool. But <laugh> we need results too.
I think of myself, unfortunately, as a glass half empty kind of person. I always see the risk in every situation. But something I learned from you in the creation of this book is this idea of the magic wand technique where if I’m in this situation and I’m like, “Well, I’ve got this problem, and I’m never going to be able to solve this.” You’re like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, let’s magic wand those things and look at it from a different, fresh perspective.” I thought, as someone who’s not necessarily an optimist, that was such a useful thing for me to learn. Can you explain that technique a bit for the listeners?
Sure. I think that it’s easy to focus on what we don’t have, what we don’t like, what we don’t want. We all get into those patterns and I so appreciate that. You’re like, yep. This is me. You know, this is how I do it. And, and so for you, that’s like that awareness is so wonderful. Right. So you can catch yourself. And certainly some people have, there’s like a scale of like which glass F empty glass <inaudible> right. But in general, yeah. When things don’t go away, it’s easy to forget. Well, what is it that I want? You know, what, what is it that if, if there was no obstacle, there’s no worry. And I had this like magic wand and I could just say, I have what I want. What does that look like? And again, when I do that exercise with people, they start telling me, well, it’s not possible because of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. You have a magic wand. It could do anything. And it’s from that space, we dream a little bit more we get more visionary, we get more focused on solutions
Instead of problems. And it’s just a simple question that redirects our thinking into what what’s possible. And it’s just, it’s just another tool in our toolbox. Right. so sometimes let’s say somebody has an employee that’s not working out. Right. And they’re complaining and, and talking, well, what would you want from this employee? What would be like your ideal scenario? And and then they start telling me, I want an employee that is like this and like that, and, and is reliable and coachable and positive. And it’s like, great. Now what do you need to say to this employee? Right. Because you’re going to speak from a place of what, what you want and what, what you’re hoping to get versus speaking from a place of what you don’t like, and what’s frustrating you, and that you’re defensive and their defensive back. Right. So you it’s that subtle technique and that subtle shift that can make all the difference in the world.
Well, we’ve touched on different areas of the book. We might as well get into CRAVE now. That’s kind of like the core of the book. I think it’s kind of like the beating heart of everything. Tell me about CRAVE.
Oh, okay. So I remember my boss was fired and they brought in a new boss and it was weird because I loved my old boss. I felt like I was like, you know, even though he was let go, I felt like I was like, somehow like cheating on him or something because I was like working with, with this new boss, but I thought, okay, well, if the new boss, if they’re bringing the new boss in, maybe they’re, he’s going to bring some something different to the table. So I was, I was wrong. I was pretty much left alone for about six weeks. And then when he did see me, he pretty much just told me what to do and how to do it. One of the things he wanted me to do was fire my supervisors and there was just so many things to consider to that decision.
I remember walking away from several meetings with him thinking, wow, he really doesn’t know what I am craving from him. And I thought, well, that’s interesting. What, what is it that I’m craving? And I started writing all these things down and realizing like, we need to step into the world of our employees to understand what it is they want, because when we give them what they want, we, we get more of what we need. <Laugh> right. It’s just inevitable. So crave stands for connection, which we could also say is like a community. People want to feel like part of that community reliability, they want appreciation. They want to feel valued and they want effective communication. And I was getting none of that from him. And I was a pretty highly engaged employee, but I felt completely disengaged when he came on and I started looking for new jobs and that right there is why people leave their boss. So at, if you could at least give four of the five, you have people that will stay much longer than when you give none of those five. Yeah.
It’s funny. You were saying one of the biggest challenges you’ve faced in the book creation process is the marketing now that you’ve launched it. Well, I have say, book marketing is like a series of difficult conversations, which is one of the latter portions of the book. Can you see any of the lessons learned from difficult conversations being applied to this idea of selling the book and, and talking about it and asking for help from other people?
Oh, that’s interesting. <Affirmative> I think that asking for help, I guess we touched on it earlier asking for help is not necessarily what I do best <laugh>. You said it too, like I’ll just do it on my own. Right. the difficult conversations chapter is really how to take an uncomfortable, an uncomfortable scenario and pivot it into a more mutually beneficial scenario. So I guess in looking at it from that perspective, it is about how can, what I have to offer benefit what you’re also doing. Right. So there’s a win-win and we’re we’re giving and receiving equally. I think that’s, that’s the message there. We’re listening. It’s not all just about us. Like do this for me and do that for me and sell, sell, sell, and in your face, like not big on that. So yeah. I think it’s a reciprocation that we need to remind ourselves. Absolutely.
And I think about applies so much to book marketing. Every single writer I work with, they go, “Oh, you’re not going to believe this but I’m really not into marketing.” <Laugh> No one is! You’re not unique! We all hate it, but you do that mindset approach, like you said, where you say, “Yeah, marketing my book is a difficult conversation, but I’m going to get into this mutually beneficial mindset where I know my book is good and it can help you, so I’m going to tell you about that. I’m not going to sell you or or be sleazy or something. I’m just going to say I put my heart soul into something that I really think could help you. And it’s up to you if you want to accept that help.
Yeah. And I think the other thing is, you know, social media obviously is kind of a big thing these days. One of the, one of the things I have to constantly remind myself about is, okay, so I, I have a post and I want people to engage on that post and, and most people do. And then I have to turn around and say, wait, but how often have you engaged in other people’s posts? Right. Cause you can’t just always accept, expect people engage, engage in what you say, and then you, you never reciprocate. And I think that’s part of, you know, yeah, it’s easy to like, like, like, like, you know, or happy face something, but it’s, it’s in the, the connection is built when you can say something a little bit more meaningful in the post and yes, that’s time consuming. And some people really do hate that. And at the same time, if that is one of your marketing strategies you want to think about, well, how often do I do it in return? Instead of just expecting everyone to do it for you. <Laugh> so yeah.
Well, speaking of book marketing and looking to the future, what do you have in the next months ahead of you in terms of rolling out the book, but also your business. We haven’t even talked about your business. I mean, the whole time you’re writing this incredible book, you’re also running your coaching leadership business.
Yeah. It’s been quite, quite fun actually. So I turn the book into an online course. So the, the online course pretty much follows it, but what also get is access to me. So I’m, I’m running the course like three or four times a year it’s to be determined at this point, they can also do it evergreen. But I just think that that’s such a great way to get in front of all the specific exercises and calm conversations and maybe be in a community where you’re at, you’re able to bounce ideas off and get some real life coaching and opened up the Facebook community for people taking the course. But I offer the first module for free in the book. So there’s like a coupon code that they can get. And that takes them to the course. So the business is really focused on either executive coaching in person live training or this course. So that’s like the three ways people can really absorb this information to complement out what they’re reading in the book, if they felt like they needed that extra resource.
All right. Well, we’ll include links to all of that in the show notes for this episode. But if we want to give them one call to action, what do we want them to do here? Do we want them to check out Executive Muse or just go buy the book?
Huh? Well, if they check out executive news, they’ll get a free chapter of the book. Okay. The, you go. So that’s what I would do. And if they like what they read, then go by the book. And you know, then they’re, then they have access to the first module. The course they know where to go already. I have a free quiz on my website, so that’s what I would say.
Yeah. Well, Val, it has been such a pleasure getting to chat with you again. I miss our calls. I cannot tell you how proud I am of the work you put into this book. I know it wasn’t always easy and I know how much time and energy and heart and soul you put into this book and to have it come out on the other end so great . . . I mean, I was sitting there reading it the other day and I was just like, my heart was alive. I was so happy for you. So congratulations on this incredible book and I’m so happy for you.
You thank you. Yay. I so appreciate you, Kevin. Like you’re in there. Did you see your name?
I did. Not that I’m super focused on myself, but I saw my name twice, so that was pretty awesome. I was in the front end and the back end! I couldn’t ask for more. Thank you so much, Val. And thank you for being the guest on the show today.
You’re welcome. That was so fun to catch up like this. I really appreciate it.
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